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paul810
Starting Member
3 Posts |
 Posted - 04/03/2008 : 00:31:39
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I figured I'd bring this up again. This is supposed to be the new version of their Combat/Survival Knife. I know Benchmade knives are popular among law enforcement/military, so it would be interesting to see how their "Black Class" fixed blade designs stacks up. It uses the same steel as the RTAK at nearly the same thickness, so it would make for a good comparison in design and heat treatment. Here's the info on it:
http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=158
Benchmade also has some other interesting looking fixed blades that might make for a good test:
155 Fixed Presidio (same thickness as the CSK II, nearly the same length, 154cm steel, aluminum handles)
http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=155
10502 Rant Bowie (basically a mini version of the CSK II, but with 440C.)
http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=10502
Just thought I'd bring it up, as I'd like to see some Benchmades tested. I've had good luck with their folders, but haven't tried any of their larger fixed blades.
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Tac45
Junior Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 01:00:46
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I don't think the fixed Presidio would survive much of Noss's test. I could be wrong. I bought one a few years back when they first came out. Full tang it may be but it is a little on the thin side. It doesn't inspire a huge amount of confidence as an outdoor/survival type knife. I know it is advertised as being for military or law enforcement use. That type of use to me always says 'sharpened pry bar'. The aluminium scales are ok. Nicely made etc. But if you were using the knife in extreme cold or heat it would be the most pleasant thing to grab hold of. It is a light knife as well. The sheath has one of the best add on pouched around. Held on by both straps and a rear stud. But on the down side, if the handle snap isn't fastened the knife falls out very easily. I don't want to sound negative. I love the knife. I have a few Benchmade knives and they are all beautifully crafted. It is a nice collector piece. But I don't think the targeted end user would find much use for it other than a fighter or light general use knife. Here are some pics
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Noss
Moderator
USA
1382 Posts |
Posted - 04/03/2008 : 23:28:32
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Nice looking knife. I never thought the Bushman could take such a beating until I did it. It looks like it has a thick tang on it ?
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
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Tac45
Junior Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 03:19:45
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| Ah the magic of photography! The thickness is only 0.18 which is about 4.5mm for the metric dudes. The steel is 154CM at 58-60 Hardness. I reckon the mallet would trash it. I could be wrong. Your tests have some pretty amazing results. I don't want to sound like I'm trashing the knife. I'm a huge fan of Benchmades. I have seven of their knives, six folders and one fixed (this one). As a 'tactical' knife, now there is a broad definition, it may be fine. I define tactical knife as something that is there as a back up in a short term well equiped operational mission. Something that is not intended for hard use like a true camp/survival knife. A tactical knife is for use against soft targets. Like I said 'tactical' seems to have a very broad definition these days. Paint it black and make it look wicked. But the Presidio is a beautifully executed and well made knife. Much better than a lot of the 'tactical' over hype rubbish out there. |
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Noss
Moderator
USA
1382 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 09:33:22
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Two of the thinest knives the Bushman and GI Tanto, It's only 4mm have done very well. According to Benchmade it was developed for tough industrial applications. http://www.benchmade.com/about_knives/our_blades.asp. It would be interesting to see how it would hold up  Model 155BK looks like it would be the best candidate.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
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Tac45
Junior Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2008 : 16:18:02
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| It would be a shame to break something so pretty. But you are right. They do say it was meant for industrial applications. Benchmade have never made a big deal out of hyping up their stuff. Their stuff sure is quality. Even the 'Red Class' knives are beautifully made. I knew a guy who had the 'Juju' and Fecas 'Offsider' and they were very very well made. They definately looked like they cost much more than they did. I'm hoping the Presidio could handle much more than it looks like it could. |
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Sharp
Starting Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 23:27:52
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Most of BMs fixed Black Class (actually all of their knives) blades are really like Microtechs. They aren't designed for survival or extreme tests but for efficiently penetrating soft tissue and/ or cutting (very sharp, I've heard that a HMMV in a Convoy some how got a flat tire and a BM was used to cut the steel wires in the tire, the knife was fine and still had a fairly good edge). Out of all the knives that I own, BMs come by far the sharpest, which is one reason why I love 'em so much.
BMs, black class, aren't really made for hard use. Especially the CSK. I have one and the BOLT system if very weak. After a bit of chopping the entire handle system gets loose. The thickness of the knife though is fairly strong and can hold me. I don't think the newer version will be any better. It's definitely an on steel though (finally BM saw the need to use a tool steel on their fix blades).
I have the Nimravus and it is a tool and not a beater knife/ FBM. I love the handles, it is extremely comfortable and you can just lock your hands on the blade. The knife is very sharp and I can see this knife as the perfect knife for "deanimation". Though I find it very useful because it has a blade geometry very close to that of a Mora, but larger and longer and better steel.
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"What the deuce?!?!" |
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Sharp
Starting Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 23:30:34
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BTW, the CSK I comes with the exact same sheath as the Presidio. I love the little pouch for its versatility and usually stick my Mini Socom in it. Some times the full size will go in, but the auto has finally found a good home ( the sheath that it came with wasn't really secure. The top of the ricasso would sometimes poke out (no holes just from the empty space that made the the flap is secured.
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"What the deuce?!?!" |
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paul810
Starting Member
3 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2008 : 18:57:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Sharp
Especially the CSK. I have one and the BOLT system if very weak. After a bit of chopping the entire handle system gets loose.
I don't think the newer version will be any better.
They no longer use the bolt-in-tang system now because they were having problems with it (they were loosening up with use or breaking). So I would think the new one would be much better. |
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Sharp
Starting Member
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2008 : 00:19:26
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Not to be dissing on BM, I love the company dearly and own many knives from them, but I honestly can't see any BM as a hard use, beat-the-heck-out of knives (though my griptilian says otherwise).
I have seen the new CSK-II. I still don't think they are that great. They have overmolded santoprene handles and come with a leather sheath. First off, santoprene is probably one of the worst material to use for a handle. Too soft and too grippy. It is good for electroshock protection (as the LMFII prooves) but other than that it isn't smart. Second, WTF is with the leather sheath? Why not the normal CSK sheath? The normal CSK sheath was much better and came with a very good folder pouch.
Though the plus side is that BM is finally seeing the need to use some good high carbon non stainless tool steels (even as cheap and easy to treat as 1095 is) in making their fix blades.
I really would have liked BM to have just swapped steels with the Presidio. I like the Presidio design much better, the handles are also more comfortable (well at least to me) and the 1095 would ensure some decent performance for chopping, etc. I think 154cm, with the BM Heat treat, is a little too hard and brittle to be used in a fix blade of that size..... unless if it's a fighter, in which case the Presidio is.
BM needs to change steel and not designs... well, at least for their black class fix blades. 3v would be awesome. S90V would be even more awesome on the Nimravus. You know what? A M2 or M4 knife from BM would be high on my list. Speaking of which. I really which they would revive M2. Their D2 is no where near as good as their M2.
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"What the deuce?!?!" |
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lafayette
Starting Member
France
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 13:11:07
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I ordered model 158 and I received it yesterday. I have had the CSk, and I have been very pleased with it : well balance, fairly strong and very light.
Well, model 158 is not very well finished. It is light, well balanced and fells good in the hand. the sheath is...well, does not look like a benchmade product : badly sewed and cut, looks a pakistanese counterfeit...but it still looks strong.
I tested the knife today and it is already broken...
I cut few pieces of wood, without any problem, it is a good cutter, well balanced. Then, I tried to make a hole in a rotten birch. The tip just broke, and believe me, it did not take much strengh.... Usaully, I love benchmade products but this time, it was just a waste of money....
lafayette |
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Noss
Moderator
USA
1382 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 16:08:06
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lafayette: Thats not a good report. I guess it wouldn't last long in one of my tests. Do you have a photo of it
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
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lafayette
Starting Member
France
30 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 16:44:14
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You are right , it would peel the apple, cut the belt, chop, but that is it. I will send you photos as soon as possible. Moreover, it is poorly finished.
lafayette |
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Noss
Moderator
USA
1382 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 18:14:17
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Cool! It sounds pretty crappy. I haven't tested any Benchmade's yet. I need to do so.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
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Tac45
Junior Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 18:34:18
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| Ouch! That's not very good to hear about the Benchmade. On the whole their knives are well made. I hope their manufacturing standards havn't started to fall. I've never looked at the BM's as hardcore knives. Cool looking, yes. Classy, yes. Sharp cutting knives, yes. Beaters, No. |
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Gman1128
Starting Member
USA
34 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 19:15:05
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Man, that sucks that it broke so easily. I always heard that Benchmade's were some of the best knives. Maybe not.
Before I judge Benchmade, I want to ask how thick is the tip on it? I have heard of and had a few otherwise decent knives that broke because of having very thin tips. |
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Benchmade CSK-II (Model 158)
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