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eatingmuchface
Junior Member

456 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2008 : 14:05:36

lol
just had an interesting deiscussion about the 5.7 over on the scrapyard forum ("black and tan" is the threads name if your interested)
and it seems the bullet tumbles, creating some serious damage.
(mac has confirmed this too)

macgregor
Junior Member

USA
301 Posts

Posted - 05/14/2008 : 14:14:56

Yes, with my real world experiance.

inventor of the bubble distruction test

Tac45
Junior Member

Australia
106 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2008 : 04:26:50

I checked out the thread in Scrapyard Forums. Like the perfect knife, the debate rages on the perfect round. The 5.7 is very similar to the .22 mag. But the big difference for penetration is the surface area of the tip. The pointier tip and slightly extra velocity/energy of the 5.7 would make it more efficient in direct penetration. The tumbling effect was someting that was touted heavily in the early days of the 5.56/.223. More often than not the tumbling begins when a hard onject such as bone is encountered.

Now the big problem with fast little bullets as defence arms. Penetration. Small fast bullets exit the target. Very bad if there is something behind the target you do not want to destroy. NYPD started using 9mm ball ammo in their weapons on first issue. The rounds went through the target and ensuing problems arose. Hollow points solved these problems.

eatingmuchface
Junior Member

456 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2008 : 17:32:44

they tumble on soft targets too...
:D
whihch would also stop them from exiting wouldn't it???
or at least slow them down alot?

Noss
Moderator

USA
1382 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2008 : 20:37:18

I looked at the thread on SYC. Yes it does tumble. The SS195 round available to civilians performs just like the SS192 that was discontinued. Only two rounds are available to civilians the SS195 and the SS197 V-Max round. The SS196 V-Max round was discontinued
for the faster SS197 V-Max round.

I have seen the debate rage since it fist came out. Some say it is a great stopping round and some say it is a mission failure round. I have read ballistic tests in favor of it and against it. So I don't know what the verdict it. The thing needed is actual
shotting data (Person shooting person) the last I checked there was not enough of it to make any conclusions one way or the other.

I feel as long as You place your shots well it will work just fine. Many have been killed with a 22lr so the Five Seven has to be better I would think. It's shot placement that will stop someone not just the size of the bullet.

________________________________________
A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife.

Noss
Moderator

USA
1382 Posts

Posted - 05/15/2008 : 21:05:19

There is a video of a cop that pulled over a large black man. They got into a fight and the Officer shot him three times with a 357 point blank range. The man fell down,recovered and shot the officer with a 22 or a 25 cal pistol. The bullet went underneath the officers armpit and severed the main artery, He yells on the radio "I'm shot." He losses consciousness and dies about 30 seconds later. The office shot him in the stomach and missed any vital organs or arteries. The perpetrator didn't.

The video is on the net somewhere. It is used for training. It shows the importance of shot placement. The 357 didn't stop the perpetrator but the small caliber stopped and sadly killed the police office. The man lived.

________________________________________
A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife.

Edited by - Noss on 05/15/2008 21:08:08

Tac45
Junior Member

Australia
106 Posts

Posted - 05/16/2008 : 07:18:15

Right on the money Noss. Shot placement is the bottom line providing the bullet has enough energy to penetrate the target.

Tumbling bullets won't necessarily not exit. Tumbling will effect the velocity and as a result energy will lessen. It would depend on what speed the bullet was travelling when it hit the target. Obviously distance slows down the bullet. At close range fast pointy bullets do go through the target more often than not without tumbling. That in its self is problematic as the bullets speed and energy on entry will not cause a significant stretch cavity that results in rapid fluid displacement (hydostatic shock). Stretch cavities are temporary, kind of like blowing a puff of air in a baloon and then deflating it. If the bullet doesn't tumble the crush cavity (cavitation, the actual damage caused by the bullet path) will be relatively small. This is where rounder bullets with more surface area or flat or hollow point bullets are more effective. But these types of bullets were not designed to defeat body armour. The 5.7 is a military round designed with the modern soldier in mind.

Shot placement is the most effective way of getting a bullet big or small to do its intended job.

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