| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| itxploded |
Posted - 10/31/2007 : 01:29:35
what do yall think of the baby eagle.40 by israli arms my dad had one and it shot like a dream |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Tac45 |
Posted - 05/16/2008 : 07:18:15
Right on the money Noss. Shot placement is the bottom line providing the bullet has enough energy to penetrate the target.
Tumbling bullets won't necessarily not exit. Tumbling will effect the velocity and as a result energy will lessen. It would depend on what speed the bullet was travelling when it hit the target. Obviously distance slows down the bullet. At close range fast pointy bullets do go through the target more often than not without tumbling. That in its self is problematic as the bullets speed and energy on entry will not cause a significant stretch cavity that results in rapid fluid displacement (hydostatic shock). Stretch cavities are temporary, kind of like blowing a puff of air in a baloon and then deflating it. If the bullet doesn't tumble the crush cavity (cavitation, the actual damage caused by the bullet path) will be relatively small. This is where rounder bullets with more surface area or flat or hollow point bullets are more effective. But these types of bullets were not designed to defeat body armour. The 5.7 is a military round designed with the modern soldier in mind.
Shot placement is the most effective way of getting a bullet big or small to do its intended job. |
| Noss |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 21:05:19
There is a video of a cop that pulled over a large black man. They got into a fight and the Officer shot him three times with a 357 point blank range. The man fell down,recovered and shot the officer with a 22 or a 25 cal pistol. The bullet went underneath the officers armpit and severed the main artery, He yells on the radio "I'm shot." He losses consciousness and dies about 30 seconds later. The office shot him in the stomach and missed any vital organs or arteries. The perpetrator didn't.
The video is on the net somewhere. It is used for training. It shows the importance of shot placement. The 357 didn't stop the perpetrator but the small caliber stopped and sadly killed the police office. The man lived.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
| Noss |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 20:37:18
I looked at the thread on SYC. Yes it does tumble. The SS195 round available to civilians performs just like the SS192 that was discontinued. Only two rounds are available to civilians the SS195 and the SS197 V-Max round. The SS196 V-Max round was discontinued
for the faster SS197 V-Max round.
I have seen the debate rage since it fist came out. Some say it is a great stopping round and some say it is a mission failure round. I have read ballistic tests in favor of it and against it. So I don't know what the verdict it. The thing needed is actual
shotting data (Person shooting person) the last I checked there was not enough of it to make any conclusions one way or the other.
I feel as long as You place your shots well it will work just fine. Many have been killed with a 22lr so the Five Seven has to be better I would think. It's shot placement that will stop someone not just the size of the bullet.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
| eatingmuchface |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 17:32:44
they tumble on soft targets too...
:D
whihch would also stop them from exiting wouldn't it???
or at least slow them down alot? |
| Tac45 |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 04:26:50
I checked out the thread in Scrapyard Forums. Like the perfect knife, the debate rages on the perfect round. The 5.7 is very similar to the .22 mag. But the big difference for penetration is the surface area of the tip. The pointier tip and slightly extra velocity/energy of the 5.7 would make it more efficient in direct penetration. The tumbling effect was someting that was touted heavily in the early days of the 5.56/.223. More often than not the tumbling begins when a hard onject such as bone is encountered.
Now the big problem with fast little bullets as defence arms. Penetration. Small fast bullets exit the target. Very bad if there is something behind the target you do not want to destroy. NYPD started using 9mm ball ammo in their weapons on first issue. The rounds went through the target and ensuing problems arose. Hollow points solved these problems. |
| macgregor |
Posted - 05/14/2008 : 14:14:56
Yes, with my real world experiance.
inventor of the bubble distruction test |
| eatingmuchface |
Posted - 05/14/2008 : 14:05:36
lol
just had an interesting deiscussion about the 5.7 over on the scrapyard forum ("black and tan" is the threads name if your interested)
and it seems the bullet tumbles, creating some serious damage.
(mac has confirmed this too) |
| macgregor |
Posted - 05/13/2008 : 17:44:27
The Five seveN is a sweetie, I have shot a few mag through my uncles.
I just hope they are legal by the time I am 21 or someone buys me one before that time.
5.7x28 is a great round.
inventor of the bubble distruction test |
| itxploded |
Posted - 05/11/2008 : 13:32:02
quote:
Originally posted by Noss
I usually shoot pistols with both eyes open as well.
________________________________________
A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife.
i CAN shoot with one eye but switching targets is easier and you usualy dont have to aim too much that is the main problem with people is they over aim and psych themselves out
logan
sedated for youre protection
lets continue |
| Noss |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 10:19:22
Tac45: H&K is working on a small but fast round also. Armor piercing was the design factor behind the weapon. I can't get the tactical armor piercing round that was developed for it. There is a lot of debate about it's stopping power especially since civilians can not get this ammo. It is a lot of fun to shoot.
EMF: The round is the 5.7x28mm. Here is a link to the Five Seven forum that lists all the ammo data.
http://fivesevenforum.net/showthread.php?t=7228
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
| eatingmuchface |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 20:15:20
yeah dude what round does that shoot???
it looks awesome.
:D |
| Tac45 |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 18:25:22
Oh My!!! I bet the FN is one loud little mother. That sure is one 21st century set up Noss. Funny how old ideas come new again. Fast bottle necks in auto's popped up at the turn of the 20th century. Big blades were the choice for outdoors and military usage. Maybe the folks from long ago new what they were doing. I read somewhere a while back that during the Korean War a lot of US guys were not happy with the .45 as the round being slow and having a lot of tip surface area wouldn't penetrate the thick winter gear worn by the enemy. 9mm being faster and pointier did. I figure that must say something for the fast pointy bullets. |
| Noss |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 18:08:53
Shooting handguns is fun stuff.  I carry the Glock 23 as my concealed carry weapon and woods gun. I'm going to start carrying my
FN Five Seven as my woods gun as soon as I get a holster for it. It is so damn lightweight even fully loaded with 20 rounds.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
| eatingmuchface |
Posted - 05/06/2008 : 16:45:11
man... I've never shot a handgun yet. (in fact, all the guns I've ever shot have been .22's so I just want to shoot anything with some kick!)
:D
I really want to though.
and one of the sporting goods stores near me actually has a nice handgun selection...
I had my eye on a glock 23.
:D |
| Noss |
Posted - 05/04/2008 : 03:21:08
I usually shoot pistols with both eyes open as well.
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A Dull knife is always better than a broken knife. |
